Initially this was in response to the whole friending thing and the number of friends people end up having and does anyone REALLY read 300 individual blogs per day? I can't see myself going over 30 friends just because I don't think I can keep up with more than that and what's the point of *having* them if you're not going to *read* them. But on the other hand it seems to be a popularity thing and friending someone who friends you seems to be LJ etiquette.
So, that was the general and then it spread into web-based fandom in general and then to feedback and commenting habits. I've experienced this as a habit in fan art where no one gives honest feedback. It's always happy-happy-joy-joy. There seems to be a tendency to seperate constructive criticism from feedback. I never considered them mutually exclusive until I joined a message board where it was later clearly pointed out that feedback and CC weren't (apparantly) the same thing. I gave constructive criticism and encouraged others to return the favor only to find that that left me with nothing. Every now and again I got props or general "gee. nice" type comments, but nothing that told me what I was doing wrong, where I was going wrong, how to correct the problem or suggestions for improvement. Same goes for my fic. I used to clearly state that I wanted all the news -- good, bad and ugly. That got me nowhere. Now, when I leave feedback I'm vague unless I've got glowing feedback because I've seen such a crappy response from people involved with fanart.
I just don't know what to do. The only people really blunt and up-front about my fic is moonwhip and she's my beta so it's her job! She'll tell me to go back to the drawing board with no hesitation. I like that. I can't improve unless I know what I'm doing wrong.
AAARRRGGHH
Sorry about the rant. The whole computer issue has got me a little buggers, plus I had a doctor's visit today.
As for LJ. I don't know. Maybe it's just the web in general, but communities and fandoms often feel like highschool all over again. And much like high school, I find myself on the periphery and I can't quite figure out what it is I'm supposed to do to break in. I'm not good with the ass kissing and I'm no good with being a lemming. So, guess I'm just assed-out.
Anyway.
Back on line by Thursday (hopefully). Didn't mean to take your head off.
Thanks for the detailed response. I was kinda wondering if it had something to do with that.
Of course no one can read 300 blogs a day (whoa!) but LJ has "filtering" capabilities where if you so wished, you could create a bunch of separate friends lists. Let's say you want to check the list of your slasher fic friends, or just the Spuffywriters. You can do that. I bet you that's what a lot of people with huge friends lists do, not that I've ever asked. Some people filter lists by what their friends are interested in and if they make a post about "24" they make it viewable only to those who requested to be on the "24" list. Okay, it can get very involved ...
Also, some people have those huge lists because they've friended everyone who writes fic they like, and they want to be sure they don't miss updates. They don't necessarily comment or communicate and maybe just skim entries quickly merely looking for the fic update notices.
I happen to be chatty and I like to communicate. So, it gives me a happy whenever someone friends me and I try to comment in their LJ whenever I can. I like to give them feedback. I try not to be just Miss Gush-A-Lot, but at the same time it's a fine line between offering valid critical feedback and making a sensitive fic writer cry, so I bet many folks just don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. There are also many people who really enjoy reading but just get exhausted at the idea of doing a real review, and the choice is a) gushy one-liner or b) nothing at all.
Erm, and while it will make me sound like an elitist snob *cough*, there is quite a large contingent of fic readers who probably shouldn't be reading it at all and aren't exactly qualified to leave feedback. Even when they do. And perhaps I have just trod on a steaming pile by saying this ...
I just discovered Buffyfic recently and LJ at about the same time, and after awhile realized how much ficwriters appreciate getting feedback, so I do it as much as I can, and I actually stress out over some reviews because I want them to be worthwhile. I think I'm getting better. I whine that good reviewing is hard. Because repetitiveness is built in and it's so hard to avoid; it's difficult to come up with different ways to express appreciation and to describe the effect of good writing, especially when one reviews the same authors and the same genre so frequently.
But anyway. I'll also say that I choose to ignore the cliquey high school deal. I pretend it is not there and will simply behave as if it doesn't exist. I am almost 40 years old. I figure if I'm interesting enough people will friend me back, and if they don't, it's probably because they have too many friends already and can't keep up. If they want a clique, then that's their deal and not mine and I won't worry about it.
I made friends on LJ from a) some folks just being really friendly and nice to a newbie; b) from having sent some writers pretty heavy duty reviews that they appreciated; c) from being invited to a conference chat w/ some ficwriters/reviewers and then being friended by them all since we'd chatted; d) from following recs from friends, giving good feedback and causing the writer to feel "friendly" toward me. I tend to think of this as the good old fashioned way ... even the conference chat happened because thru LJ I began IM'ing with a few people and they invited me to it. It was good fortune, "meeting" a lot of people at once, but it happened because I was friendly and communicative in the first place.
So anyway, um ... sorry to go on at such length in your LJ, but I guess your remarks inspired me. I want to say don't stress about LJ, just have fun with it. It's a really good way to keep up with new fic and ficwriters and just vent or rant or yammer about whatever, and even make actual friends. And I'm even finding it educational as well as entertaining, but painlessly!
Hope you get back online soon and de-stress. Be happy shiny SeraC (she of the dark, angsty fic ... ;)
Sorry about the rant and on most days I'm pretty unconcerned with group dynamics. They are what they are and they work however they work. Most of my frustration that day came from my internet going down, so me really crabby. You've made some really valid points, both concerning LJland and ficwriters and readers. Thanks for the perspective.
whine that good reviewing is hard. Because repetitiveness is built in and it's so hard to avoid; it's difficult to come up with different ways to express appreciation and to describe the effect of good writing, especially when one reviews the same authors and the same genre so frequently.
Absolutly understand and agree! I'm also pretty late with my own feedbacking so, no right to complain about my own lack. :)
The friend thing got me a little because unless I'm familiar with the person in some capacity I prefer to visit someone's LJ for a few days before I friend.
Despite my wacky mood and the small stuff, I am really enjoying the LJ community. It's neat, compact and way too convenient.
Thanks for the words of wisdom and for commenting.
Initially this was in response to the whole friending thing and the number of friends people end up having and does anyone REALLY read 300 individual blogs per day?
(Sheepish raising of hand here.)
Yep.
Though, of course, usually only about half update on any given day.
I have to say that I am truly amazed! With even half, that's still 150 blogs. wow. just. wow.
I do have a question. How do you determine who you're going to friend? Is there any one particular, universal reason or do you follow the etiquette clause about friending those who friend you? Curious to know.
Oh, I'm a big fandom ho. I basically will friend those who have friended me after a quick check in their journals to make certain they aren't utterly nuts.
My personal journal, which I deleted about a year ago, had about 80 or so people on it, a fairly large number of which were people I knew in real life, so the size of this one sort of snuck up on me.
LJ has, in many ways, basically replaced heavy-traffic mailing lists, just in the couple of years I've been in fandom, and allows me to sort of create-my-own fandom experience. I don't always click on the cut tags--I'm probably more likely to read someone's personal entries or episode related thoughts than stories (because I'm still in more of a writing than reading mode at the moment)--but I make a note of things I want to check out later when I have time, and if there's a good discussion on, will leave the window with that post open until the discussion peters out.
LJ has, in many ways, basically replaced heavy-traffic mailing lists, just in the couple of years I've been in fandom, and allows me to sort of create-my-own fandom experience.
That's a really cool way of describing the benefits of LJ. I, too, tried mailing lists and found that all the stuff in my inbox was crazy to keep up with. I still find myself deleting randomly within the mailing lists that I'm still part of because of time consumption.
if there's a good discussion on, will leave the window with that post open until the discussion peters out.
Good tip. I usually log out and check back later only to find that the discussion has spiralled out of control.
Do you use the filter system? Just curious to know if that works well as a way of managing information or do you still end up in the same bind with too many LJ's to keep track of.
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chiming
no subject
Date: 2003-11-08 03:36 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2003-11-10 11:52 am (UTC)From:So, that was the general and then it spread into web-based fandom in general and then to feedback and commenting habits. I've experienced this as a habit in fan art where no one gives honest feedback. It's always happy-happy-joy-joy. There seems to be a tendency to seperate constructive criticism from feedback. I never considered them mutually exclusive until I joined a message board where it was later clearly pointed out that feedback and CC weren't (apparantly) the same thing. I gave constructive criticism and encouraged others to return the favor only to find that that left me with nothing. Every now and again I got props or general "gee. nice" type comments, but nothing that told me what I was doing wrong, where I was going wrong, how to correct the problem or suggestions for improvement. Same goes for my fic. I used to clearly state that I wanted all the news -- good, bad and ugly. That got me nowhere. Now, when I leave feedback I'm vague unless I've got glowing feedback because I've seen such a crappy response from people involved with fanart.
I just don't know what to do. The only people really blunt and up-front about my fic is
AAARRRGGHH
Sorry about the rant. The whole computer issue has got me a little buggers, plus I had a doctor's visit today.
As for LJ. I don't know. Maybe it's just the web in general, but communities and fandoms often feel like highschool all over again. And much like high school, I find myself on the periphery and I can't quite figure out what it is I'm supposed to do to break in. I'm not good with the ass kissing and I'm no good with being a lemming. So, guess I'm just assed-out.
Anyway.
Back on line by Thursday (hopefully). Didn't mean to take your head off.
late.
no subject
Date: 2003-11-10 01:03 pm (UTC)From:Of course no one can read 300 blogs a day (whoa!) but LJ has "filtering" capabilities where if you so wished, you could create a bunch of separate friends lists. Let's say you want to check the list of your slasher fic friends, or just the Spuffywriters. You can do that. I bet you that's what a lot of people with huge friends lists do, not that I've ever asked. Some people filter lists by what their friends are interested in and if they make a post about "24" they make it viewable only to those who requested to be on the "24" list. Okay, it can get very involved ...
Also, some people have those huge lists because they've friended everyone who writes fic they like, and they want to be sure they don't miss updates. They don't necessarily comment or communicate and maybe just skim entries quickly merely looking for the fic update notices.
I happen to be chatty and I like to communicate. So, it gives me a happy whenever someone friends me and I try to comment in their LJ whenever I can. I like to give them feedback. I try not to be just Miss Gush-A-Lot, but at the same time it's a fine line between offering valid critical feedback and making a sensitive fic writer cry, so I bet many folks just don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. There are also many people who really enjoy reading but just get exhausted at the idea of doing a real review, and the choice is a) gushy one-liner or b) nothing at all.
Erm, and while it will make me sound like an elitist snob *cough*, there is quite a large contingent of fic readers who probably shouldn't be reading it at all and aren't exactly qualified to leave feedback. Even when they do. And perhaps I have just trod on a steaming pile by saying this ...
I just discovered Buffyfic recently and LJ at about the same time, and after awhile realized how much ficwriters appreciate getting feedback, so I do it as much as I can, and I actually stress out over some reviews because I want them to be worthwhile. I think I'm getting better. I whine that good reviewing is hard. Because repetitiveness is built in and it's so hard to avoid; it's difficult to come up with different ways to express appreciation and to describe the effect of good writing, especially when one reviews the same authors and the same genre so frequently.
But anyway. I'll also say that I choose to ignore the cliquey high school deal. I pretend it is not there and will simply behave as if it doesn't exist. I am almost 40 years old. I figure if I'm interesting enough people will friend me back, and if they don't, it's probably because they have too many friends already and can't keep up. If they want a clique, then that's their deal and not mine and I won't worry about it.
I made friends on LJ from a) some folks just being really friendly and nice to a newbie; b) from having sent some writers pretty heavy duty reviews that they appreciated; c) from being invited to a conference chat w/ some ficwriters/reviewers and then being friended by them all since we'd chatted; d) from following recs from friends, giving good feedback and causing the writer to feel "friendly" toward me. I tend to think of this as the good old fashioned way ... even the conference chat happened because thru LJ I began IM'ing with a few people and they invited me to it. It was good fortune, "meeting" a lot of people at once, but it happened because I was friendly and communicative in the first place.
So anyway, um ... sorry to go on at such length in your LJ, but I guess your remarks inspired me. I want to say don't stress about LJ, just have fun with it. It's a really good way to keep up with new fic and ficwriters and just vent or rant or yammer about whatever, and even make actual friends. And I'm even finding it educational as well as entertaining, but painlessly!
Hope you get back online soon and de-stress. Be happy shiny SeraC (she of the dark, angsty fic ... ;)
no subject
Date: 2003-11-13 09:20 am (UTC)From:whine that good reviewing is hard. Because repetitiveness is built in and it's so hard to avoid; it's difficult to come up with different ways to express appreciation and to describe the effect of good writing, especially when one reviews the same authors and the same genre so frequently.
Absolutly understand and agree! I'm also pretty late with my own feedbacking so, no right to complain about my own lack. :)
The friend thing got me a little because unless I'm familiar with the person in some capacity I prefer to visit someone's LJ for a few days before I friend.
Despite my wacky mood and the small stuff, I am really enjoying the LJ community. It's neat, compact and way too convenient.
Thanks for the words of wisdom and for commenting.
no subject
Date: 2003-11-13 06:42 pm (UTC)From:(Sheepish raising of hand here.)
Yep.
Though, of course, usually only about half update on any given day.
no subject
Date: 2003-11-14 02:37 am (UTC)From:I do have a question. How do you determine who you're going to friend? Is there any one particular, universal reason or do you follow the etiquette clause about friending those who friend you? Curious to know.
no subject
Date: 2003-11-14 07:56 am (UTC)From:My personal journal, which I deleted about a year ago, had about 80 or so people on it, a fairly large number of which were people I knew in real life, so the size of this one sort of snuck up on me.
LJ has, in many ways, basically replaced heavy-traffic mailing lists, just in the couple of years I've been in fandom, and allows me to sort of create-my-own fandom experience. I don't always click on the cut tags--I'm probably more likely to read someone's personal entries or episode related thoughts than stories (because I'm still in more of a writing than reading mode at the moment)--but I make a note of things I want to check out later when I have time, and if there's a good discussion on, will leave the window with that post open until the discussion peters out.
no subject
Date: 2003-11-14 01:35 pm (UTC)From:That's a really cool way of describing the benefits of LJ. I, too, tried mailing lists and found that all the stuff in my inbox was crazy to keep up with. I still find myself deleting randomly within the mailing lists that I'm still part of because of time consumption.
if there's a good discussion on, will leave the window with that post open until the discussion peters out.
Good tip. I usually log out and check back later only to find that the discussion has spiralled out of control.
Do you use the filter system? Just curious to know if that works well as a way of managing information or do you still end up in the same bind with too many LJ's to keep track of.